PVR Wire

1. Oh now they've gone and done it!! They are now going to price themselves right out of the market unless they have some SERIOUS tricks up them sleeves. I luckily gone in on the lifetime back in April with my S2. Just got 4 friends to get S2's also with the sweet blowout they were having. NOW, they are going to raise there rates.

Question... what changes prices more.. gas stations or Tivo?

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Steve

2. About 3 years ago, I bought an 80 hour HUMAX TiVo with a DVD burner in it for approx. $300. I then paid the $299 to have a "life-time" service. So as of today, I've invested $599 for my Series2 with the DVD burner or about $16.64/month. Now I gather my unmodified unit is probably only worth $70-$80? So my TCO if I sell the unit for $75 is $524 over 3 years or $14.56/month.
Now if you buy my unit for the $75 and assuming you pay for service up front for 36 months, your TCO is going to look like $10.39/month.
At 24 months that goes to $15.58/month.
At 12 months that rises to $22.83/month.
Is it just me, or does it look like TiVo is really trying to kill the Series2?

Of course that's a bargin when you compare it to the Series3 @36 months = $30.50; @24 months = $45.75; @12 months = $83.17.
I didn't add tax in there anywhere. And if you are into HD, then you're probably not really just watching the local ABC affiliate on "over-the-air" broadcasts, so you've got $29-$100/month in cable or sat subscription to add to that.
Anyone read a good book lately?

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by James Cummings

3. Tivo has lost this customer! 20 dollars a month is too rich for my blood, especially when you factor in all of your other monthly bills! I'll be switching over Windows Media Center. It'll be expensive in the beginning, but cheaper over time! Bye,Bye Tivo....Sob.

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Bigmrj

4. "Of course, who wants to commit to spending three years with a Series2 box when a) HDTV is going to become more common in the next few years and b) Series2 boxes are going to fall in price."

Your statement above does not account for the fact that you could potentially replace the Series 2 with a Series 3 anytime during the 3 year commitment period...aka, who knows what the price of a S3 will be 2 years from now...the commitment is for the service, not the specific box.

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Roscoe

5. This is suicide for TiVo.

In a market where every cable company offers a "decent" DVR for $10 a month and no hardware to buy, you could justify dropping $100-$200 for a box and an extra $3 a month for the superior interface and extra features. Now, you have to pay $20 a month and you still have to buy the box (albiet at a reduced cost)? Forget it!

Sure, you could get the lower price by signing up for two or three years, but that is an eternity these days when television technology is rapidly changing-- if someone buys a Series 2 today, what do they do if they want HD in a year?

If the hardware was included at no charge, this new pricing scheme might not be so bad. But now, no one in their right mind will go the TiVo route-- it's just too expensive.

Bottom line-- if TiVo doesn't rethink this idiotic move, they are finished. Mark my words. And this is coming from longtime TiVo booster who got TiVo back in 2001 (on DirecTV) and now has a Series 2 and a Series 3 (with a lifetime sub, thank god).

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Joseph Moran

6. I agree with the general sentiment of TiVo pricing themselves out of the market.

It appears that this new scheme is designed to make it very unattractive to with with a regular monthly plan and steer people into the bundled service plans instead but anyone who sees these prices is going to form an immediate opinion that TiVo is charging ridiculous prices.

I predict that this move will sell many more generic cable/satellite company DVRs than it will TiVos.

Thankfully this doesn't affect me as both of my TiVos are on lifetime service, but at a certain point the lack of HDTV (I have satellite so no overpriced Series3 for me) will be enough of an issue for me that I will be forced to make a hard choice of having TiVo or having HD. Of course at this rate there may not be any TiVo anymore by that time.

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Robert Aitchison

7. I am all pro-Tivo but the latest move has really annoyed me.

I recently purchased the Series 3 Tivo and canceled my Series 1 to give to a friend.

I was under the impression she could activate it with the base $12.95 month-to-month plan that they were offering for non-new boxes.
She went online to activate the Tivo and they wanted to lock her into a yearly plan for a Series 1 Tivo.

I called them and spoke to customer service. I asked what was the deal and he said that since I had cancelled my account she would have to activate for 3 years to get $12.95 a month. I was baffled that they would force someone to do that for a Series 1 Tivo.
I told him that I was just going to throw the Tivo in the trash and he said "Sorry thanks for calling Tivo".

I am extremely disappointed with Tivo.
I got the 3 year plan on the Series 3 Tivo, but if they continue pulling this crap I don't know if I will continue my service after that.

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by LA Dave

8. Tivo silently and without warning jacks ups all its prices, then quickly pulls up the "drawbridge" and goes radio silent (to mix metaphors). People are bothered and confused by the new pricing, and Tivo Inc seems to be saying nothing to anyone and doing nothing to make things better.

I was set to buy an additional Tivo yesterday. That's when I found out all this happened. I'm sorry, but I'm not locking into SD TV for 3 years. But I'm not paying $13/mo (multi-service DISCOUNT rate) for something I currently get for $7/mo. I have a decent P4 system that will soon be doing some DVR work. Tivo won't be getting additional money and they may find themselves getting even less from me very soon.

You screw with your biggest fan base (those with multiple Tivos) and you not only lose THEIR business, you lose THEIR SUPPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS!

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by B. Goodman

9. Welllll, so much for waiting for my Tivo!
I've been waiting and waiting for Comcast to get Tivo boxes in my area and NOW I think that dream will go 'poof' with Tivo's new pricing. The boxes are too expensive and now the service is too expensive. My current digital cable PVR is $7 month and PVR service is $7 a month. It has dual tuners and basically works great. I just wanted the better interface and features of Tivo but not at that price.

Posted at 1:37PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Jeff

10. James your Lifetimed Humax DVD Recorder TiVo is worth MUCH more than $80, as the Lifetime service on the device moves with the device if you sell it.

If anything these recent price changes make your unit even more valuable, according to eBay I'd guess your unit could easily be sold for $300 or more which brings your TCO to about $8.33/mo

Posted at 2:42PM on Nov 6th 2006 by Robert Aitchison

11. Tivo has been struggling to hang on since they started. I'm not clear if they are feeling pretty good about their lawsuit with Echostar (probably the only thing can infuse some life in them) or what, but I wouldn't pay $20 a month for their service. I pay $5.95 a month now through DirecTV and that is about what I feel it's worth. They have not been adding subscribers since DirecTv announced they are not going to push them anymore. Apples introduction of ITV in the beginning of the year may be their first move to bury Tivo. Also M$ with Vista is suppose to have a deal with DirecTV starting in 07 as well. Doesn't seem like a smart move.

Posted at 3:06PM on Nov 6th 2006 by JK (the other JK)

12. wow, this is incredible. I would love to have been a fly on the wall for these conversations:
"How can we alienate our customer base AND make ourselves look bad for new ones?"

I mean, they KEEP DOING THIS. Why does Tivo keep finding new ways of pissing people off?

It's so sad. I already cancelled when I went to HD; I am stunned that they continue to blow it so consistently...

oh well.

Posted at 3:25PM on Nov 6th 2006 by mike r

13. People need to calm down and do some math.

In the end, out of 30 permutations (80-hour S2, 80-hour S2DT, and 180-hour S2DT bundles from TiVo.com, and 540 and non-540 rebate units from retail times the 6 pricing options) 21 of them *dropped* in cost. 1 stayed the same. 5 increased just slightly - $13.60-$15 for 1-year, and one $18 increase over 2-years.

There were only three (or two, depending on how you look at it) noticeable increases. The two 1-year monthly S2DT bundles each increased $40. The 1-year monthly non-540 retail net increased $54.

All of the three year plans dropped, up to $154 off the old prices. All but one two year plan dropped, the exception went up $18 spread over 2 years.

One 1-year plan stayed the same. Four of them had only minor increases, $15 or less. With the remaining three showing real increases.

Overall, this is a price decrease more than an increase.

The 1-year monthly plans have always been the worst deals, and that's just truer now than before. But the two and three years deals are even better. TiVo does allow users to swap the hardware and maintain the service commitment, so you're not 'locked in'.

As for resale, the resale value on an non-lifetimed S1 or S2 has pretty much been $0 for a long time now. With various deals TiVo has been offering a new or refurbishes S2 for, effectively, free. If you can get one new from TiVo, with the warranty, etc, why buy a used, unrefurbished box from some other user? No good reason to do so.

Lifetime boxes have a high value, $300 or more, simply because of the lifetime. There are people who want lifetime, and since it is no longer available from TiVo, they pay for it on the used market. And right now people are grabbing boxes to transfer the lifetime to an S3, increasing demand.

DVD units can have a higher resale value, since they're no longer produced and thus harder to find new. Pioneer and Toshiba boxes also have TiVo Basic included, which gives them more value.

Posted at 10:46PM on Nov 6th 2006 by MegaZone

14. I was unaware that the DVD Recorder units were out of production, in fact I thought those were the only way you can still get lifetime service.

OTOH they don't seem to be available on the Circuit City or Best Buy web site.

Posted at 11:41AM on Nov 8th 2006 by Robert Aitchison

15. TIVO DUG THEIR OWN GRAVE WITH THIS PRICING SCHEDULE. IT IS A SIMPLE MATTER OF TIME FOR THE INEVITABLE TO TRANSPIRE.

Sadly noted by a loyal muti-Tivo enthusiast since 2001. (Cancelled order for two S3 Tivo's even with Costco special pricing of $649. No thank you. When loyal customers cancel, the future is plain to see).

Posted at 8:44AM on Dec 10th 2006 by Peter